Don't buy a Colorado

[The Raven]

Reviving and old thread...

I saw some new LHD Chev Colorado's doing some road testing yesterday.

The next model is V6.


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[trevort]

My mechanic started talking mechanical geek speak this morning. The bit I understood was "anywhere from $600 to $1500"

Apparently to odd behavior from my Colorado after the weekend workout the farmer gave it is coming from the diff.

the oil (or whatever the fluid you fill it with is) is milky and they have found bits of metal in the oil. I know that cant be a good thing.

So his suspicion is that water got into the diff..

"have you done a creek crossing"

Yep, when I went to the King valley with Kickin.

I asked him if diffs are meant to be waterproof. Apparently they have a breather. Water can get in.
So does everyone know they are meant to change diff oil after creek crossings and I am the only one out of the loop? How am I supposed to know these things?

Its a conspiracy

[Gnome]

My mechanic started talking mechanical geek speak this morning. The bit I understood was "anywhere from $600 to $1500"

Apparently to odd behavior from my Colorado after the weekend workout the farmer gave it is coming from the diff.

the oil (or whatever the fluid you fill it with is) is milky and they have found bits of metal in the oil. I know that cant be a good thing.

So his suspicion is that water got into the diff..

"have you done a creek crossing"

Yep, when I went to the King valley with Kickin.

I asked him if diffs are meant to be waterproof. Apparently they have a breather. Water can get in.
So does everyone know they are meant to change diff oil after creek crossings and I am the only one out of the loop? How am I supposed to know these things?

Its a conspiracy

No conspiracy Trevort,

Locate the breather and replace with a way longer one and have it located higher in the body. Finding metal in the diff is never a good sign but good practice to change the oil every 30 - 60k is, even more frequent depending on conditions and abuse.

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Extend the diff breather as G nome said is the go with all factory fourbies.Change the oil and trade it in

[kickinback]

My mechanic started talking mechanical geek speak this morning. The bit I understood was "anywhere from $600 to $1500"

Apparently to odd behavior from my Colorado after the weekend workout the farmer gave it is coming from the diff.

the oil (or whatever the fluid you fill it with is) is milky and they have found bits of metal in the oil. I know that cant be a good thing.

So his suspicion is that water got into the diff..

"have you done a creek crossing"

Yep, when I went to the King valley with Kickin.

I asked him if diffs are meant to be waterproof. Apparently they have a breather. Water can get in.
So does everyone know they are meant to change diff oil after creek crossings and I am the only one out of the loop? How am I supposed to know these things?

Its a conspiracy

Never done it. Never had to. Every service they get the once over. But hey, it's just a Toyota so I don't expect too much. The 3 cruisers before the Hilux were exactly the same.


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[stinkitup]

The old mans patrol never had issue plenty of water around with creek crossings all up the top end, don't think he changed the lsd fluid for almost 300k no dramas, funny as he is fastidious about mechanical maintenance but the diff was never something worried about too much other than its been a noisy bitch since day 1.

[The Raven]

Permit me a minor rant about a lot of automotive "old wive's tales" that I hear...

I keep hearing about the "must fit extended breathers" but find that advice very suspicious for numerous reasons. I'm not suggesting it is all bullshit, on all vehicles, but most of what people keep repeating doesn't match physics or experience:

1. Diff and trans breathers on every vehicle I've worked on have an element of an air trap in their design (small as it may be). In other words: They are designed NOT to ingest water in the first place. So the chance of water being ingested during a creek crossing is pretty much negligible.

2. 90% of the 4x4's that do cross creeks DON'T have diff breathers and manage to survive long term without any problems.

3. People tell me the cold water crossing can cause the diff to siphon water in through the breather. I call that bullshit! I can't believe there's enough of a temp differential to pull a large enough vacuum for the oft quoted litres of water to end up in the diff (or transmission). If there was that significant a temp difference, you'd be more likely to crack your cast iron carrier, trans, block, whatever as it hits the water. Also, OEM breathers are generally small diameter which severely limits the rate/volume of water that could possibly get in there during a creek crossing (or two)...

4. I see some crazy long diff breather setups running up to the engine bay to "fix" things. These are more likely to make the problem worse. Any water vapor coming out your diff that goes up your super long breathe and starts settling in the lines well before whatever outlet is reached. So, where does all that vapor/condensation go? Back down your breather lines INTO the diff! As you cycle the vehicle each day that moisture goes back up the tubes, then back down the tubes, repeat multiple times and the moisture will build up in the diff.

So does anyone remember Cyclone Tracey? Our old 120Y did weeks of work in the flood waters helping with the cleanup. Funny, we never had any water get into the diff or gearbox after all that water crossing and the car ran fine up until we sold it a decade later. Maybe modern 4x4's are designed worse than 70's Jap econo-cars.

Trevor,

If there is any appreciable quantity of water in your diff it's been submerged for some time. Creek crossings shouldn't do that.

If there are metal bits in the diff it is unlikely to be the result of recent water crossings (unless you drowned it and then did a lot of driving at warp speeds). More likely is some other culprit. Oh, and if you had aftermarket diff breathers guess how useful any warranty will be?

One last thought: Are you sure your mechanic isn't diagnosing some metal particulate in the oil as "it's stuffed"? He may just be seeing a bit of clutch 'dust' from the LSD (if you have one). Some LSD clutch packs will leave a metallic looking sheen in the diff oil. Of course, if your mechanic has already pulled the diff apart and damage is clear ...ignore what I said.

I'd like to see pics of the 'metal' found in the diff. If you have chipped gear teeth and similar then the cause is more likely to be something other than a bit of water in the diff.

[stinkitup]

I'm with you Raven!

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[MISSED]

I agree with most of what you said Raven BUT I have seen a Detroit Series 60 ingest enough water past the rear main oil seal to wreck the bearings.And this was in a flood way on a bitumen road no more than 12@ deep.I was about a kilometre behind the Ols mate when it happened.
The diff breathers are not the only entry point for water.
That said I have never fitted extended breathers and have had water over the bonnet more than once.

[curan]

I spent 13 years at Jackson oilfield in SWQ. From 1984 to 1997.
I worked in the field, but also in the vehicle bay, servicing and repairing Toyotas.
We had a fleet of roughly 36 Landcruisers, and 12 Hiluxes.
We definitely got water into the diffs on the HJ75 landcruisers.
I don't think the HJ60s or Hiluxes went out to the floodplain area much, especially if the water was up, and I don't remember seeing water in their diffs at any time.

It would normally happen when one or more of the 3 fords in the area had water around 500mm deep.
The problem of destroying diffs (which would have metal debris) was overcome by requesting the drivers to drop into the workshop at their next convenient opportunity after any water crossing over 300mm. The drivers would happily use the excuse to have a cuppa for 10 minutes, so there wasn't an issue getting them there. We would check the diff oil. If we found "cream" (emulsified water/oil), we would change it, and invariably find the breather was blocked. And 90% of the time, any water in a diff was in the rear diff.

Sorry Raven, but we subscribed to the theory that you call bullshit in your point #3. But we believed the water was drawn through the lip seals in the hubs, as the breather was blocked by dust. And the rear breather sees more dust than the front. I saw this time and time again during routine servicing when I would blow shop air through the breather line from the diff end as part of the service. The rear was always more clogged than the front.

On our long range vehicles, we would extend the breathers, but not to get them above water, but to reduce the dust they saw. We would run them all the way up the headache rack behind the tray. Similar reason to running a dust snorkel on the air intake to the engine. I will also note that the extended breathers seemed to work, but we would on rare occasions find an emulsion just starting up. And then find the breather partially blocked, even though it was extended.

The point is, you don't have to extend your breathers, but if you go through water over the centre line of your wheels, it only takes a few minutes to loosen the diff fill plug and check for water when you get 20km down the track. The distance will give it time to emulsify so you'll see it easily. Stick your finger into the oil and draw it out and have a look. If the oil looks creamy, get it changed.

Cheers, curan.

[The Raven]

I agree with most of what you said Raven BUT I have seen a Detroit Series 60 ingest enough water past the rear main oil seal to wreck the bearings.And this was in a flood way on a bitumen road no more than 12@ deep.I was about a kilometre behind the Ols mate when it happened.
The diff breathers are not the only entry point for water.
That said I have never fitted extended breathers and have had water over the bonnet more than once.

Was that with the engine running? Must have been a lot of pressure to push backwards through a rear main seal.

You are right, under enough pressure water can enter lots of places. However, most vehicles are pretty resilient to that.

[The Raven]

A good post that helps enormously with some practical knowledge and experience (and I knew we've have some practical experts here).

I agree with you on point #3, a blocked breather tube *could* lead to moisture seepage back through hub seals etc. It shouldn't 'leak into' the diff but it could be drawn by some negative pressure AND over time cause problems.

As you said, keep your breathers clean!

So from your experience you suggest extended diff breathers that are long enough to keep above water level but not ridiculously long?

A thought I had last night, if you have long diff breather lines why not hook that up to the air cleaner (not a full vacuum source). That'll be just enough to draw out any moist air without running the risk of siphoning your gearbox/diff oil through the engine OR sucking water in through the hub seals etc.

[curan]

So from your experience you suggest extended diff breathers that are long enough to keep above water level but not ridiculously long?

It's more a case of long enough to keep them out of the dust than anything. I know on one unit (a HJ75), we ran the breather into the back of the cab, but it was more mucking about than we wanted to do. So we stuck to the headache rack route. As long as it's not under the vehicle anymore. There is probably a continual dust storm happening under the tray on dry outback roads when you think about it .....

A thought I had last night, if you have long diff breather lines why not hook that up to the air cleaner (not a full vacuum source). That'll be just enough to draw out any moist air without running the risk of siphoning your gearbox/diff oil through the engine OR sucking water in through the hub seals etc.

Yeah, that would probably be okay, but inside the cab will work well too. And it's a bit less mucking about to do it, than connecting into the engine air filtration.

It all depends on how much dust you see and how many water crossings. I go bush occasionally, but I don't have extended breathers. I just make sure the existing breathers are clear. And different vehicles have different breather positions. My Ford RTV breather finishes inside a chassis cross member, which would help keep it out of most of the dust. I check it when servicing (a diff rebuild on these is >$1200) and have never found it blocked.

Last year when I did my drive around NSW, in the section from Noccundra to Tibooburra I encountered rain, and would have had a few dozen water crossings of 300mm or more. No water had got into my diff when I checked it. If the breathers are clear, you don't seem to have an issue.

There could be many variables to end up with water in your diff, but these are my experiences.....

Cheers, curan.

[trevort]

Rightio, the guy he sent the diff to for repairs says it's rooted. He doesn't think water is the culprit. The replacement part to repair it from Holden is over 2k so he is replacing it with a second hand one that got written off with 40000klms on the clock. There are a couple of moving parts that had almost fused together that had to be chiseled apart. He could have said bearings not sure. What he couldn't say is why it happened. It's just over 3 and half years old with 105000 klms on the clock. Major parts shouldn't be failin that quickly?lease is up Jan 2019. Might get a hilux


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Google Hilux diff problems