neck sizing dies

[LoneRider]

whats the difference between a neck die and a type s neck die ?
are there others ?

[Camel]

S Type neck bushing dies, have a seperate little bush you put in the top of the die, they are different sizes, usually in steps of 1 thou, you can change them at relatively low cost compared to buying a whole new die when you want to to a different neck size. I use a 222 neck bushing die to size four different cartridges, 17/222 20/222 222 and 250 Myra, so as long as the parent case is the same you can change calibers very easily. So one die body and 4 bushes and I have 4 neck sizing dies for 4 different calibers.

The neck bushing die doesn't touch any other part of the die except the neck.
Neck bushing dies also don't use an expander on the decapping rod. The bush you use should be only a couple of thou under the neck size of a loaded round, enough to hold the projectile firmly, but no so small that you have to drag the case neck back over the expander.

I did a little experiment when I first got my bush die to see if dragging the neck of the case back over the expander would lengthen the case, like has been thought for years, well I proved that in my case, it did in fact lengthen the case by about 5 thou, neck bushing dies don't lengthen the case at all.

Neck bushing dies are a wildcatters wettest dream, they are fantastic. And while each bush will either be around 20 bucks, or 45 bucks for the flash coated ones, the cost saving is pretty good.

I guess the real big bonus, beside the above, is less working of the neck of your cases, giving you much better case life, my 20/222 have been loaded about 12 or so times, I made 200 first up and have put approx 2600 shots through the rifle, they are all still very usable and have only needed to be trimmed once since I made them. They have never seen the inside of a full length sizing die, nor have I needed to use my body sizing die.

A normal neck sizing die, like the type you get in 7/8x14 sets, only does the one cartridge/caliber, though you can use them if necking down for changing down caliber.

And then there are Super Simplex 5/8th neck dies as well.

[LoneRider]

ive got the standard 5/8 super simplex neck sizing die for my 3 head press.
i want to start neck sizing my cases using the rock chucker.
ive just gotten [still in the mail] a redding neck sizing die.
i was also given an expander die and plug.

so if i use the sizing die to shape the neck should i use the expander that comes with it or should i leave it out and use the expander plug ?

all this is instead of fls after every firing......

and will i have to start annealing cases because it works the necks to much ???

its getting beyond a joke,all this stuff...
very confusing and a bit of a worry

[Seddo]

I use a Type S Full Length die when ever i can. I set it up to bump the shoulder 0.002-0.004" and use the correct bushing.

[cooper]

I mainly use Lee collet neck dies. But have also purchased a Forster bushing bump neck die. It allows you to select the correct bushing for the neck sizing and push the shoulder of the case back with resizing the body of the case. I like it


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[justjeff]

Guys, I don't know much about it, only won the SCC HG five times. The bushing die is the ducks nuts, it doesn't stretch cases, but more importantly, doesn't cause the neck to be off centre to the case, and bore. Tests by JR showed more than 3 thou runout causes dispersion in group, bushing neck dies, no matter what brand, get around this issue. If you are interested in minute of pig, use the expander ball type, if you are interested in MOA at 1000yd, use a bushing die. Yes, there are some expander dies that will give that grade of uniformity, but not many.

Just my 2 bobs worth

Jeff

[Tony Z]

While S type bump dies are common place these days, there was a time when neck dies were it. Lube the necks with graphite on an old bore mop and you will minimize drag and case neck lengthening Camel talked about. Do not use any liquid lubricant as it causes the powder to stick and dam up leading to messy powder spills. Size 75% of the necks length so that the other 25% remains at full size centering the neck and bullet in the chamber. That is or was the objective of these dies after all. You must use the expander provided as the sizing bore is usually smaller than required. Sounds dumb but it is what it is.

[trevort]

Lonerider if your neck sizing die has an expander ball that drags through the neck sell it and get a bushing neck die. If it has an expander ball then screw it off


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[Tony Z]

I will explain why you do not remove the expander ball. Lets say you are doing a 0.243" caliber cartridge. The expander ball will be somewhere around 0.240". That is what the neck bore is left at when it passes through the neck. So the bullet has around 3 thou of neck tension which is good. Unturned necks vary a bit. In that case it is wiser to keep the bore consistent and leave the variation on the outside. If you remove the expander you will generally decrease the necks bore and in some dies, a lot more.

But let's say it is a snug fit with a Winchester case and the expander passes through with just a little final expansion. All is good, no problem. Then you are using Federal cases, known to have thicker brass by up to a couple of thou a side like in my 308 verses Winchester brass. You use the same die and no expander and the bore of the neck closes by up to 4 thou at around 0.236". That is far too tight and with flat base bullets can strip copper jacket from the base of the bullet. Brass yields at around 3 thou, depending on age and brass thickness. The idea is not to seat a bullet and have the neck yield, but use its elasticity to hold the bullet.

[trevort]

Tony I turn necks. And don’t use an expander


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[Tony Z]

Trev i gathered you did. My post is more for those that do not turn necks and i suspect the OP does not. And if so is better off with a standard neck die.

[trevort]

Rightio


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[LoneRider]

thanks guys,tony i dont turn necks and i do use winni cases with 2208.
i have some adi brass and did load 2 cases with the same powder charge,but the pill crunched in on top of the powder and im a bit sceptical about using them.
maybe i will use the adi cases when powder starts getting hard to get again.... [winchester has the contract again,powder shortages are forth coming ]

[Flash Gordon]

thanks guys,tony i dont turn necks and i do use winni cases with 2208.
i have some adi brass and did load 2 cases with the same powder charge,but the pill crunched in on top of the powder and im a bit sceptical about using them.
maybe i will use the adi cases when powder starts getting hard to get again.... [winchester has the contract again,powder shortages are forth coming ]

LoneRider,
Listen to Tony,re the ADI cases,they will be heavier than Winchester and most likely have less capacity,a rough rule of thumb is 8 to 10 grains of brass weight is equivalent to a grain of powder,I will always use less powder in a Lapua case than in a Winchester case.